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This is the talk page for the article "Fairy Tail Gaiden: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth".
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Name[]
Ok, since Jak has changed the name of the series page without any discussion, I think it's time we had a discussion of what the title of the series should be. The change made was from Side Story to Gaiden, which I have a problem with. Why is gaiden being left untranslated? It isn't a name of something nor does it hold any special meaning within Fairy Tail. I originally translated it to side story, but I would be ok with it if it were to be translated to Spin-Off. I know with a lot of other series, people usually leave it untranslated and pretty much everyone knows what it means, but that doesn't mean it should be left untranslated. Also Jak, could you close the voting our at least say something before you start making changes. I have no problem with the changes you made with the chapter pages, but let us know a decision has been reached first.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 21:23, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
Ummm.... are you blind or incapacitated in some way that prevents you from seeing the result of the voting? The Mixed option won by a landslide. The only reason I didn't officially close the voting was because I forgot. In case you haven't noticed, I had to close multiple discussions today and the first two required me to do work with the wiki's bot to implement the name changes. And when I do my bot changes, I don't just let it run freely. I monitor it to make sure that the bot makes no errors (the last time I didn't, we had "Giantania" appearing instead of Titania on several pages), so excuse me if I forget to put a little blue template on the top of the page to state the obvious. >_> Now, as far as the issue at hand goes, I used the name Gaiden instead of the "Side Story" translation you used because, generally speaking, "Gaiden" is left untranslated and it is a term recognized by all anime fans. Also, it makes the bulky name "Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth" sound less bulky and ridiculous imo. And leaving things untranslated isn't without precedence on this wiki. As you may or may not have noticed, several of our video games aren't fully translated. If "Gaiden" is good enough for the Naruto wiki, the Bleach wiki, the One Piece wiki, Mangastream, Mangapanda, and virtually every other site that has anything to do with anime or manga, I figure it's good enough for us too. :P 夢Iam... 黒 JakuhōRaikōben死 04:46,8/12/2015
Yes, I can clearly see the mixed option won by a mile. It's just that a week or 2 ago you told me no changes can be made until the discussion is officially closed, after I changed Invel's name that was also leading a fair way (7 to nil) before the discussion was closed. The result may be obvious, but when the discussion is over isn't, since every discussion seems to be open for a indefinite amount of time. I was just notifying you of the same rule/protocol you told me. I apologise for my ignorance of how busy you were at the time.
Anyway, Gaiden can translated to both Side Story, Spin-Off or anecdote. I personally prefer spin-off. I translated as Side Story at the time cause that's somehow else translated it and forgot. I have noticed the video games naming, and wish to change those too (eventually) but I'm not really thinking about those at the moment. And while most anime fans know what Gaiden means, there are casual fans who visit this wiki who don't. I personally believe we should go with Spin-Off cause Gaiden has more than 1 meaning, and it depends on the context in which it is being used. Unless it has special meaning, a name of something, or in the case that it can not be translated without some meaning getting lost in translation, I see no reason as to why it should be left as Gaiden. It translates too spin-off with no problems whatsoever. While Gaiden does work, it's generally best to not translate only when there is a good enough reason (such as not being able to accurately translate it). And to me 'Fairy Tail Spin-Off: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth' doesn't sound any more or less bulky than 'Fairy Tail Gaiden: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth'.
Also, just so I don't have to open up another discussion I also suggest removing the colon from 'Fairy Tail Blue Mistral', as there is no colon in the kanji or the official english translation, and also to be consistent with the Fairy Tail Zero title.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 05:56, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
I told you that no changes could be made until the discussion was closed off in its entirety, and that discussion was closed. Hence why it was removed from Quick News and marked as closed on the Sorcerer Magazine. Frankly, it should've been obvious that I just forgot the template at the top. But I digress. And I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. If someone has taken the time to look up the Fairy Tail wiki and are viewing a page dedicated not to the main series or any of its information, but to a spin off of the series, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that they're a big anime fan and know what Gaiden means. And even if by some unlikely chance they didn't know what it meant, it's in the first sentence of the page. And I quote "Fairy Tail Gaiden: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth is a Japanese manga series by Kyōta Shibano and a spin-off of Hiro Mashima's manga series Fairy Tail." So your point there is moot. And as previously mentioned, Gaiden is a very frequently used term for a spin-off in the anime community. Could it be translated to Spin-off? Sure, but we could have also translated Ushi no Koku Mairi to Ox-Hour Shrine-Visit, but we didn't because we didn't find it aesthetically pleasing enough, and similarly, I find Gaiden more aesthetically pleasing than "Spin-Off" or "Side Story." As far as Blue Mistral goes, I could care less as it doesn't change the meaning one way or the other. 夢Iam... 黒 JakuhōRaikōben死 06:46,8/12/2015
First of all Ushi no Koku Mairi, is a name type of a magic. And being aesthetically pleasing (which is subjective by the way) shouldn't be the sole deciding factor when it comes to choosing between not translating and translating. We are an english-language wiki and we should only not translate if it has a special meaning within the series, a name of something, or in the case that it can not be translated without some meaning getting lost in translation. And yes, the introductory sentence does state that it is indeed a spin-off, but that doesn't mean people will know Gaiden means spin-off. Also, as stated before, Gaiden has more than one translation, so it is important that we translate based on the context. In my opinion, the context is more important than something that is subjective such as how aesthetically pleasing something is. As for Blue Mistral, so does that mean you don't care whether it is changed or not?--DuelMaster93 (talk) 07:20, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
I've done substantial editing on that page and I'm the one who mentioned it, so I'm well aware of what it is. Your point being? And who are you to decide what's important and not important when deciding what to translate and what not to translate? We're an english wiki about Japanese content. Whether or not we chose to translate is entirely up to us (hence why Ushi no Koku Mairi and several video games are untranslated). And it's not like Gaiden is some random Japanese word that is not being translated. As previously mentioned, it's a very well-known term like "otaku." And I'm sorry, but plenty of words have multiple meanings. Spin-off is the most prominent and anyone viewing this page would know exactly what this story is - a spinoff. Why? Because it's said in the first damn sentence. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. And no, I don't care if its changed. 夢Iam... 黒 JakuhōRaikōben死 07:40,8/12/2015
If you read I wrote, I said in my opinion and also that aesthetically pleasing is subjective. Gaiden can translate to anecdote, spin-off, side-story, supplementary biography. I highly doubt there are many people who would know all 4 meanings. And there are plenty of people who are not anime/manga fans or just casual fans who don't know what otaku means (as well as plenty of other words). Even if it being aesthetically pleasing is more important you need the context. And yes, the page does state it is a spin-off, but if it were something else it doesn't mean they would know what it means. Nowhere on the page does it state or imply Gaiden means spin-off. If the title was Fairy Tail Supesharu: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth, does that mean people who don't know what Supesharu means will think it means spin-off? No, all it means is that Fairy Tail Gaiden: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth is a spin-off, and Gaiden (a word some people may not know the meaning to) just so happens to be in the title. And yes, whether or not something is translated or not is up to us, which is by I am only asking for this to be translated, and not everything on the wiki. And yes, the wiki is based on Japanese content, but that doesn't mean certain things shouldn't be translated solely based on being aesthetically pleasing. And I don't care if I'm making a big deal of it. The context in which it is being used should matter.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 08:08, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
Gaiden is a perfectly fine word to use, you are just a translationphile. I see no reason this discussion needs to continue. Its staying as gaiden no matter how much you continue to bitch.-- God · Pray · 08:13,8/12/2015
- First of all, explain to me how it is a perfectly fine word to use when it has more than one meaning, when there are a fair number of people out there who don't even know one meaning of the word, let alone all four. And bitching is complaining without any reasoning whatsoever. I am debating. If I were bitching I would be saying 'it should be Spin-off not Gaiden! Change it' without adding any reasoning whatsoever. I see no reason for you comment here, as you are not providing anything constructive to the conversation. So unless you actually want to be constructive rather than name calling, then I suggest you don't comment here.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 08:24, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
- Better yet, why don't you stop your bitching. You aren't debating, you are bitching. Debating is a back and forth conversation in which the two opponents counter each others arguments. You have just been told the same thing over and over but you won't get it through your thick skull. Its staying as gaiden. Let me repeat, it is staying as gaiden. Gaiden is a perfectly fine word to use when it is used EVERYWHERE in japanese media and is hardly ever translated when the media is translated to English. Kakashi Gaiden is a famous example. Ninja Gaiden is a famous game. If you don't like the word gaiden, oh well, get over it. There is no further need for discussion here. You can bitch all you want, but you have turned the community against yourself. Many members of the community have expressed on chat that you and your constant complaints about translations are very annoying. You have lost, you can give up any time now.-- God · Pray · 08:36,8/12/2015
- If you read anything that I wrote, I had also had to reiterate points that are being ignored. And I am in fact countering his arguments. I have countered every argument he has made. I am not bitching, you are bitching about me without any reasoning whatsoever. Gaiden is only a perfectly fine word to use to those who know it means. And I have no problem with that particular word, just don't think it should be used in this situation. I never stated or implied that Gaiden should never be used. And well I am not here to make friends. I am just pointing in my 2 cents. Couldn't care less what strangers on the internet think of me. I am only trying to have a constructive conversation here.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 08:50, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
- And the conversation is over. Gaiden is what we will be using.-- God · Pray · 08:52,8/12/2015
- Not until someone counters my last reply to Jak. No one has yet to explain to me why something as subjective as being aesthetically pleasing should be chosen over the context of the word, nor has any explained to me why aesthetically pleasing should be the sole deciding factor.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 09:01, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
- And the conversation is over. Gaiden is what we will be using.-- God · Pray · 08:52,8/12/2015
- If you read anything that I wrote, I had also had to reiterate points that are being ignored. And I am in fact countering his arguments. I have countered every argument he has made. I am not bitching, you are bitching about me without any reasoning whatsoever. Gaiden is only a perfectly fine word to use to those who know it means. And I have no problem with that particular word, just don't think it should be used in this situation. I never stated or implied that Gaiden should never be used. And well I am not here to make friends. I am just pointing in my 2 cents. Couldn't care less what strangers on the internet think of me. I am only trying to have a constructive conversation here.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 08:50, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
- Better yet, why don't you stop your bitching. You aren't debating, you are bitching. Debating is a back and forth conversation in which the two opponents counter each others arguments. You have just been told the same thing over and over but you won't get it through your thick skull. Its staying as gaiden. Let me repeat, it is staying as gaiden. Gaiden is a perfectly fine word to use when it is used EVERYWHERE in japanese media and is hardly ever translated when the media is translated to English. Kakashi Gaiden is a famous example. Ninja Gaiden is a famous game. If you don't like the word gaiden, oh well, get over it. There is no further need for discussion here. You can bitch all you want, but you have turned the community against yourself. Many members of the community have expressed on chat that you and your constant complaints about translations are very annoying. You have lost, you can give up any time now.-- God · Pray · 08:36,8/12/2015
... o.o Miskos3 Message 08:42, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. DuelMaster, I'm sorry but we frankly don't care if you're the only one having a problem with the name. Unless you get other people to vouch for that what you say is correct, then this discussion is over. Let me remind you; you are currently the ONLY person against this name. 
Wonder Talk ★★ 10:51, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
@DuelMaster Your point being? Literally every word in the English language has multiple meanings (some well-known and some barely known). If we took out every word on this wiki that had several meanings, we wouldn't have a wiki left to edit. And regardless, the most popular meaning of Gaiden is spin-off. And no, the page doesn't have to state that Gaiden means spin-off. If some anime fan doesn't know what Gaiden means and aren't smart enough to work it out based on context clues (which is frankly only going to happen in your ridiculous hypothetical situations) then they can google it. And frankly, me and you can argue this for the next three weeks, but the fact still remains that not a single other person has mentioned any issue with the translation - just you. 夢Iam... 黒 JakuhōRaikōben死 15:09,8/12/2015
- My point is that I believe when a word has multiple meanings, we should use the most accurate one based on the context it is being used. Gaiden being left untranslated in this situation is too broad. And I would hardly call someone visiting this wiki not knowing what Gaiden means (or at least not the full meaning) hypothetical. And I really don't care if i'm the only one. Since this conversation is going circles, I will no longer continue this conversation. We will leave it as Gaiden. I apologise if I came off as rude and/or stubborn, but I am only trying to argue my case as best I can. Thanks for your time and have a good day.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 16:04, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
- You've done absolutely nothing that needs to be apologized for. We all get heated in discussions - especially when we have opposing views. And whether your views are in line with the popular opinion or not, it's always good to express them. If I may be disgustingly cheesy and poetic for a moment - a lone wolf is better than a blind sheep, lol. 夢Iam... 黒 JakuhōRaikōben死 16:34,8/12/2015
Format exporting[]
Anyone think it'd be a good idea to export this format to Fairy Tail Blue Mistral. Most of its chapter pages are empty. 128.138.57.78 22:44, January 18, 2016 (UTC)
Adding Arcs[]
Hey, so I just checked out that at the end of the White Flower Omake, which does come before the start of the two fighting, there was a tag by the last pages stating "To be continued in Obstone Arc". Should we consider this part official?
Animaltamer7
09:48, January 26, 2016 (UTC)